Separation of Church and State, or Gaullism Unveiled?
Submitted by dimmer on 24 October, 2005 - 02:11.
originally posted by dimmer on Friday December 19, @03:46PM
from the phony-secularists dept.
Recently Jacques Chirac stated: "I feel that wearing any kind of symbol that ostensibly shows faith, I feel that that is something that should not be allowed in schools and colleges." This of course brings up the question: what, if any, religious symbols are allowed? Chirac said that "If we are talking about a star of David, the hand of Fatima or a small cross, those are acceptable, but when it's very obvious, in other words, when if they are worn people can immediately see what religious faith they belong to, that should not be accepted." So the not visible, okay -visible (jewish skullcaps, muslim headscarves), bad. Chirac's ostensible reason is to enforce the separation of church and state.
But is this really an issue of separation of church and state? The issue here is NOT whether or not the state-sponsored school can post religious materials. The issue here is whether individuals can wear clothing or accessories of their choice. In France, you do have a right to express yourself. As long as the rights of others are not being infringed upon, why don't people have the right to wear whatever they want - for any reason, religious or otherwise? This isn't helping the separation of church and state - the by allowing students to wear religious garments, the State isn't support religion. This is an infringment on the rights of minority groups. This is the French cultural police cracking down on people who have a different culture, in the name of separation of church and state.
In fact, Chirac's ideals might be a violation of the separation of church and state. Chirac's ideals violate the US Supreme Court's Lemon Test in that Chirac's ideal has the primary effect of inhibiting religion. The State must be free from the Church, but the Church must also be free from the State.
Chirac seems to be motivated by Gaullist ideals which promote French cultural purity. Chirac doesn't seem like a Christian, and you know he doesn't give a crap about the Jews. He probably doesn't give a crap about the Muslims, except before elections. And how often are his supporters, Christians, affected? How many tote huge crosses around their necks? This is clearly not a fight for secularism, it is a fight for right-wing cultural purity. The scary thing is that most (69%) of France agrees with him. You would think that at this time in human history industrialized/educated nations would have put cultural supremacy behind them. France has no moral high ground when it bashes the US on cultural monopoly.
But is this really an issue of separation of church and state? The issue here is NOT whether or not the state-sponsored school can post religious materials. The issue here is whether individuals can wear clothing or accessories of their choice. In France, you do have a right to express yourself. As long as the rights of others are not being infringed upon, why don't people have the right to wear whatever they want - for any reason, religious or otherwise? This isn't helping the separation of church and state - the by allowing students to wear religious garments, the State isn't support religion. This is an infringment on the rights of minority groups. This is the French cultural police cracking down on people who have a different culture, in the name of separation of church and state.
In fact, Chirac's ideals might be a violation of the separation of church and state. Chirac's ideals violate the US Supreme Court's Lemon Test in that Chirac's ideal has the primary effect of inhibiting religion. The State must be free from the Church, but the Church must also be free from the State.
Chirac seems to be motivated by Gaullist ideals which promote French cultural purity. Chirac doesn't seem like a Christian, and you know he doesn't give a crap about the Jews. He probably doesn't give a crap about the Muslims, except before elections. And how often are his supporters, Christians, affected? How many tote huge crosses around their necks? This is clearly not a fight for secularism, it is a fight for right-wing cultural purity. The scary thing is that most (69%) of France agrees with him. You would think that at this time in human history industrialized/educated nations would have put cultural supremacy behind them. France has no moral high ground when it bashes the US on cultural monopoly.
Maaaan, you know there is
Maaaan, you know there is such thing in the web like search engine, http://google.com if you don't, go there to understand why this post is bullshit
STFW isn't a valid response
STFW isn't a valid response to this argument. If you can't say why this post is bullshit then you lose.
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